View source for Template talk:Google translation link

I don't think [http://wiki.worldnakedbikeride.org/index.php?title=Template:Google_translation_link&oldid=17985 this] is a good idea: there are far too many external links, it's almost impossible to understand what they are for, and lots of them will ''never'' be used. All we need is a number of links to translate the current (English!) page into some other language. Besides, I don't think you checked your CSS in Internet Explorer (see [[:File:Google translation link.jpg]]) - [[User:Erik Baas|Erik Baas]] 20:59, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

It's impossible to click any other link than the first one of each language: for example you can click on "EN", but not on the following symbols - only the space ''in between'' two symbols (tested in Opera and Firefox). - [[User:Erik Baas|Erik Baas]] 21:19, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

== Over-complication ==

I've just reverted [[User:SomeHuman|SomeHuman]]'s latest edit to this template, having previously asked him not to add excessive, convoluted mark-up to the wiki. The addition of title="" attributes to provide roll-over text of languages' full name is useful, but I'm not prepared to unpick all the surrounding pointless HTML. Furthermore, since I'm fed up of un-picking SomeHuman's continuing barrage of not entirely helpful edits, I've blocked him for a week until he either accepts the formatting and operational structure of this wiki or gets in touch by conventional means to discuss better ways of working. I'm busy and there aren't enough active editors on this wiki to handle this issue collectively. – [[User:Nsayers|Nsayers]] 00:39, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

== New improved and fully functional translation assist ==

This 'Google translation link' template is called by merely one page, and that one is an 'Archive'. It certainly can not have been of much use, if any at all. Its functionality is extremely limited and not suitable for ''editors'' of the wiki who call for or report about a ride at a location where English is not native. Stimulating ''World'' Naked Bike Rides needs more — especially since over the years, we've seen more than a few of in particular such locations to fail at starting or to abandon their intended project. A mere ''reader's'' translator of existing pages in English towards a few languages, may generally promote WNBR (almost) worldwide but still shows it as mainly a thing for countries with very good understanding of English. It can't possibly help other local would-be organizers to create and maintain a page for ''their'' location.

These days, convoluted ''mark-up'' can't be in the least a valid argument as putting a burden on the server or connection, this is video age. Maintenance of complex templates could be another matter. A new template, still having all the functionality I once intended, now looks ''far'' more simple in the calling page, and both very valid technical arguments by Erik Baas are entirely solved, even using less mark-up than at the time. Testing in IE, Edge, Opera and Firefox [not yet in Chrome or Safari] at screen widths from 800 to 3,840 pixels, while simultaneously varying viewport (browser) width and resizing content (character), both way beyond reasonableness, showed also excellent wrapping (also in several long standing ride pages that never caused complaints despite their own minor boundary flaws towards the extremes). Maintenance is uttermost simple, though we only very rarely may need to add (or remove) some language: The relevant elements in the template source code are very easily recognized and adapted. Only a thorough change of function would need modification of any other, more complex parts — or in fact an entirely new template.

A large &lt;noinclude&gt; section contains, apart from the 'Category', ''two'' blocks: The first is 'display:none' but still assists a source code editor of the template, to comprehend its details and to easily maintain it. The second block explains the Google Translate module arguments, with a link to the horse's mouth; this may be useful to ''call'' the template with the proper optional parameter. It tells what the template does and shows how to put it in use <small>[contrarily to the by apparent name and obsolete syntax utterly outdated 'Help:Babelfish translation link', until today still linked and shown; that file can be deleted].</small> Notice the more simple new syntax by using an optional anonymous instead of an obligatory named parameter (which name a ride page editor then had to remember or find out). The section also indicates a few reasons for those functionalities for which Eric Baas had not seen the usefulness. If for users, it may have been "almost" impossible to understand what the series of links were for, the present layout is much less cluttered and the now initial short text is self-explaining: People don't ''investigate'' the template but will simply ''use'' it for their need of the moment.

Obviously, on this English language wiki a page about a non English language location will often be a mix of elements in different languages. A template must not confound Google Translate by allowing it to 'auto detect' a language. Google does a different job when e.g. 'Brussels' calls it with parameter fr, nl and en (useful to most properly translate the parts in that specified language, though it fails to steer entirely clear from sections with one of both other html arguments 'lang' defined: these show as rather haphazard mixes of original and translation. It does prove the need for ''specifying'' a 'from' language whenever a page contains other than English text, thus such page should provide in a call of the template with that language as parameter, beside a call without parameter in case (just about always) it also contains text in English (which template default language is explicitly passed on to Google).

Confronted with Nick Sayers' proprietary attitude, I've stayed away from the wiki's style and technical ways for a very long time. But only last year, I had not prepared the 'Brussels' page and for the first time, the number of riders declined — without any apparent reason such as the weather or some simultaneous major sports event. A bizarre coincidence, perhaps... but I won't count on it. To me, it demonstrates the need of properly maintaining this wiki's locality pages in all ''local languages'': The main organizers at Brussels, e.g. on Facebook etc., are not eloquent in Dutch but the earlier rides used to have a lot of participants who were. That argument will be of triple value for locations at which a much smaller percentage of the population in the wide vicinity is as good at understanding English (and/or French) than the native speakers of Dutch/<span style="color:green;" title="Flemish: the way native Dutch language is used by the majority of Belgians, who live in Flanders, Belgium's northern [almost] half in which Brussels is a by far mainly French speaking officially bilingual enclave">Flemish</span>. They need the improved template.<br />[[User:SomeHuman|SomeHuman]] ([[User talk:SomeHuman|talk]]) 03:01 - 22:03, 9 March 2020 (PDT)

===Remark===
Little to do with this particular template, it may be interesting to know that the [http://www.w3schools.com/tags/att_global_translate.asp new attribute 'translate' of Html 5] is as yet not recognized by the major browsers, and no better by Google Translate. I nevertheless put it in the template, so as to in future hopefully prevent the mishaps like you can spot in the ''template page'' itself by asking its own translation into German (de): 'text to <small>...</small> or from <small>...</small>' becomes 'text von <small>...</small> oder nach <small>...</small>' and that is utterly wrong: in real life, en 'to' = de 'nach', and en 'from' = de 'von'! Present-day qualities of non human translators are greatly improved since the old days, but translating into the opposite of the original is still their hallmark. Google does it fine towards e.g. Dutch (nl), though. I also added some source code 'clutter' by making the template address the wiki page's namespace, thus one might call this translation template from e.g. help pages, (informative) [user] talk pages, etc. [Otherwise, such usage would have caused a Google response with a 'page not found', just like the old template.]<br />[[User:SomeHuman|SomeHuman]] ([[User talk:SomeHuman|talk]]) 08:23 - 23:16, 9 March 2020 (PDT)