User talk:SomeHuman - Revision history

SomeHuman: Infinite block.

2020-06-21T17:07:43Z

Infinite block.

SomeHuman: /* Extension and admin */ Grateful reply.

2020-05-03T14:55:37Z

‎Extension and admin: Grateful reply.

Robjordan: /* Extension and admin */ new section

2020-05-03T14:29:08Z

‎Extension and admin: new section

SomeHuman: /* Site migration */ Late reply here

2020-04-24T09:41:31Z

‎Site migration: Late reply here

Robjordan: /* Site migration */

2020-04-22T12:53:28Z

‎Site migration

Robjordan: /* Site migration */ new section

2020-04-22T12:52:53Z

‎Site migration: new section

SomeHuman: /* Multilingual solutions */ fix typo

2010-03-08T07:05:28Z

‎Multilingual solutions: fix typo

SomeHuman: /* Multilingual solutions */ minor clarifications

2010-03-08T07:04:18Z

‎Multilingual solutions: minor clarifications

SomeHuman: /* Multilingual solutions */ clarification, indent

2010-03-08T06:43:12Z

‎Multilingual solutions: clarification, indent

SomeHuman: /* Multilingual solutions */ Software needs to be available on the wiki before ''any'' practical solution could work .

2010-03-08T06:32:59Z

‎Multilingual solutions: Software needs to be available on the wiki before ''any'' practical solution could work .

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:07, 21 June 2020
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	--[[User:Robjordan\|Robjordan]] ([[User talk:Robjordan\|talk]]) 14:29, 3 May 2020 (UTC)		--[[User:Robjordan\|Robjordan]] ([[User talk:Robjordan\|talk]]) 14:29, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
	:Fine news, and all seems to be going very well. Really appreciating this. Still quite a bit of things to do ...<br />[[User:SomeHuman\|SomeHuman]] ([[User talk:SomeHuman\|talk]]) 14:55, 3 May 2020 (UTC)		:Fine news, and all seems to be going very well. Really appreciating this. Still quite a bit of things to do ...<br />[[User:SomeHuman\|SomeHuman]] ([[User talk:SomeHuman\|talk]]) 14:55, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Infinite block ==
		+	After having been doing ''exactly'' what had been announced on:
		+	# the <span class="plainlinks">[http://wiki.worldnakedbikeride.org/index.php?title=Template_talk:Google_translation_link&oldid=34107 discussion page]</span> of the template <span class="plainlinks">[http://wiki.worldnakedbikeride.org/index.php?title=Template:Google_translation_link&oldid=34369 Google translation link], and after having pointed to this on the [http://wiki.worldnakedbikeride.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Erik_Baas&oldid=33902#Translations discussion page] of the at the time [only] regularly active administrator, and allowing time for his reading, I started deploying that multilingual translation support.
		+	# the <span class="plainlinks">[http://wiki.worldnakedbikeride.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Robjordan&oldid=34499#Wiki_migration discussion page]</span> of the 'sysop' who had been transferring the wiki to another server (see here above), at my asking for administrator rights. At this, I informed the 'sysop' of my unfortunate experience ten years earlier with the 'bureaucrat' who used to run the wiki (but apparently had been limiting his edits to a few English ride locations for the last 8 years). The aforementioned still active administrator (from the Netherlands), also with the higher 'bureaucrat' rights, had commented my request on that discussion page before I was indeed granted the extra rights. At this grant, the 'sysop' commented: ''"[http://wiki.worldnakedbikeride.org/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=rights&user=&page=User%3ASomeHuman&year=2020&month=5&tagfilter=&subtype= Requested admin privileges as he is doing wide-ranging template changes.]"''
		+
		+	After another month of (still unfinished) wide-ranging work in order to bring the wiki ''in line'' with its fundamental structural concept and declared purpose, without any warning whatsoever and without even ever having modified any one of my edits, the aforementioned English 'bureaucrat' Nsayers blocked me infinitely,
		+	<pre style="margin:-.5em 0 -.6em 0;padding:0;">
		+	Start of block: 2020-06-02T23:41:59
		+	Expiration of block: infinite
		+	Intended blockee: SomeHuman
		+	</pre>
		+	with only false accusations even stating that I had acted without consultation! I can't edit any normal page, not even my own presentation. He simply ''sabotaged'' the WNBR wiki because no-one will continue to bring the not yet modified parts in line with the large parts I already had taken care off, nor undo the latter (which surely would be a real shame anyway): Thus many confusing inconsistencies, anomalies and contradictory aspects that would have taken me relatively little more finalization work to fix, are doomed to be permanent.
		+
		+	Meanwhile, the 'sysop' emailed me: ''"In particular, [Nsayers] was aggravated by the way you updated the Brighton ride that he organises with an incorrect Covid status. I trust Nick's judgement in this matter."'' So far, Nsayers did not modify my very correct edit on the [[Brighton & Hove]] page, thus must have meant its line in the [[List of rides]]. All I ever did there, was modifying the ''colour'' of the word 'postponed' and (as at the time already by Nsayers explicitly confirmed on the B & H page) relating the postponement to the pandemic. I also had put 'TBC' out of the struck-through date:
		+	* {{Ride status tab - Committed to ride}} [[Brighton & Hove]]: <strike>14 Jun 2020 TBC</strike> Postponed ''<span style="font-size:85%;color:#999;">[before Nsayers mentioned a 'plan' on the B & H page and still so when SomeHuman first edited the List of rides since '''2017'''!]</span>''
		+	* {{Ride status tab - Committed to ride}} [[Brighton & Hove]]: TBC {{Evading covid\|14 Jun\|Type=POSTPONED}} ''<span style="font-size:85%;color:#999;">[After SomeHuman's edits until he was blocked, it since the here above never having shown any other info]</span>''
		+	Changing this 'TBC' into the most appropriate term 'TBA' might have been best but it was impossible to misinterpret the information: One had to wait for a new ride date or other info there, anyway. Immediately after taking away my administrator rights at which it is ''absolutely impossible'' to overlook the sysop's grant comment, and minutes later nevertheless blocking me with ''"Nuisance edits: Over-complicating the wiki (esp templates), giving misleading information about Covid cancellations (UK rides), making fundamental wide-ranging changes without consultation."'', Nsayers put extra information on that List of rides' B & H line: a date at which one may ''expect to become informed of one or other 'plan''' <span style="font-size:85%;color:#999;">(instead of replacing 'TBC' with 'Plan to be announced 14 Jun 2020' also destroying the until then for the entire list consistent pandemic indication)</span>:
		+	* {{Ride status tab - Committed to ride}} [[Brighton & Hove]]: Covid-19 postponement plan to be announced 14 Jun 2020 ''<span style="font-size:85%;color:#999;">[right after having blocked SomeHuman; Nsayers' edit comment politely included: "(f’ed up by SomeHuman)"]</span>''
		+	He had put that in the B & H page long ago and had simply ''neglected'' to also put it on the List of rides. Neither the supervising Dutch bureaucrat then, nor I when I saw it on the B & H page much later on, had found it proper to 'correct' Nsayers, after all he once had pointed out that details about cancellations and so on belong in the ride location pages. But the afterwards so-called "misleading information" (not at all, merely incomplete for a detail), had been ''the sole choice of Nsayers himself''. He couldn't wait to indefinitely block ''me'' for his own neglect [http://wiki.worldnakedbikeride.org/index.php?title=Brighton_%26_Hove&type=revision&diff=33842&oldid=33830 <u>two months</u> earlier].
		+
		+	No-one ever severely acting impulsively without checking the ostensible facts, or deliberately falsely accusing of not having consulted properly, or punishing for doing precisely what had been the very reason for having been granted ''extra'' rights, or out of the blue sky severely acting without any warning or other indication of scepticism, or such action with poor consequences for the thereby left-behind wiki state, is worthy of or can be trusted with 'bureaucrat' authority — as was implied in my further above linked discussion page request for administrator rights that ''predicted'' Nsayers' abominable abuse of power.
		+
		+	I had learned ten years ago, the style of discussion by Nsayers: Anything complicated by him was ''evident'' even if just about every editor had proven incapable to understand and apply whatever Nsayers might have intended, with a wide-spread range of numerous inconsistencies and blunt errors as result; and anything else, especially for accessibility by speakers of a native language other than English, was ''over-complicating'', ''cluttering'' and ''confounding''. His nicely suggested 'solution' [[#Multilingual solutions\|higher on this talk page]] was in fact a smart attempt to keep me busy out of the way until I would give up, but failed. Nsayers knows my argumentations to be sound, so he vindictively blocks me without private or public discussion and concerts with individual administrators whom he knows he can manipulate or bully. Any reasonable person must see that before banning a conscientious, careful and capable editor, one should first ''ask'' to limit edits within certain boundaries. Not having done so and having left the wiki doomed in a random state, is ruthlessly tyrannical, dishonouring the wiki, and not helpful for the WNBR.
		+
		+	As I was ''the only'' active editor of the 'Brussels' pages, the block also comes to excluding Belgium and such merely 18 days before its still announced ''(at present already lapsed)'' ride date and thus while an urgent corona postponement update ''had'' to be expected. It was in fact by failing to be able to save an update, that I discovered my being blocked. Apparently, now Amsterdam is the only non English speaking ride location that is still being properly maintained on what was supposed to be a '''''World''' Naked Bike Ride'' wiki.
		+
		+	I do not intend to discuss the matter here: '''''far''''' too late for that.<br />[[User:SomeHuman\|SomeHuman]] ([[User talk:SomeHuman\|talk]]) 17:07, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:55, 3 May 2020
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	Hi, sorry it's taken me a long time to action this. Migration worked ok second time around, though we had some hours of downtime. I have enabled the ParserFuncions extension and made to and admin. Hope all is ok. Let me know if there are problems.		Hi, sorry it's taken me a long time to action this. Migration worked ok second time around, though we had some hours of downtime. I have enabled the ParserFuncions extension and made to and admin. Hope all is ok. Let me know if there are problems.
	--[[User:Robjordan\|Robjordan]] ([[User talk:Robjordan\|talk]]) 14:29, 3 May 2020 (UTC)		--[[User:Robjordan\|Robjordan]] ([[User talk:Robjordan\|talk]]) 14:29, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
		+	:Fine news, and all seems to be going very well. Really appreciating this. Still quite a bit of things to do ...<br />[[User:SomeHuman\|SomeHuman]] ([[User talk:SomeHuman\|talk]]) 14:55, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:29, 3 May 2020
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	--[[User:Robjordan\|Robjordan]] ([[User talk:Robjordan\|talk]]) 05:53, 22 April 2020 (PDT)		--[[User:Robjordan\|Robjordan]] ([[User talk:Robjordan\|talk]]) 05:53, 22 April 2020 (PDT)
	:Thanks Rob, with a [[User_talk:Robjordan#Wiki_migration\|reply and request]] on your talk page. —[[User:SomeHuman\|SomeHuman]] ([[User talk:SomeHuman\|talk]]) 02:41, 24 April 2020 (PDT)		:Thanks Rob, with a [[User_talk:Robjordan#Wiki_migration\|reply and request]] on your talk page. —[[User:SomeHuman\|SomeHuman]] ([[User talk:SomeHuman\|talk]]) 02:41, 24 April 2020 (PDT)
		+
		+	== Extension and admin ==
		+
		+	Hi, sorry it's taken me a long time to action this. Migration worked ok second time around, though we had some hours of downtime. I have enabled the ParserFuncions extension and made to and admin. Hope all is ok. Let me know if there are problems.
		+	--[[User:Robjordan\|Robjordan]] ([[User talk:Robjordan\|talk]]) 14:29, 3 May 2020 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:41, 24 April 2020
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	Rob		Rob
	--[[User:Robjordan\|Robjordan]] ([[User talk:Robjordan\|talk]]) 05:53, 22 April 2020 (PDT)		--[[User:Robjordan\|Robjordan]] ([[User talk:Robjordan\|talk]]) 05:53, 22 April 2020 (PDT)
		+	:Thanks Rob, with a [[User_talk:Robjordan#Wiki_migration\|reply and request]] on your talk page. —[[User:SomeHuman\|SomeHuman]] ([[User talk:SomeHuman\|talk]]) 02:41, 24 April 2020 (PDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:53, 22 April 2020
Line 48:		Line 48:
	Best wishes		Best wishes
	Rob		Rob
		+	--[[User:Robjordan\|Robjordan]] ([[User talk:Robjordan\|talk]]) 05:53, 22 April 2020 (PDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:52, 22 April 2020
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	:In case user setting would become determining (with or without the Mediawiki solution code), if showing a single language suffices, even simpler <nowiki>{{Title\|Links}}</nowiki> and <nowiki>{{Title\|History}}</nowiki> would produce the titles in the reader's language, even if the rest of the page would be in another language (including with Wikimedia solution wherever the reader's language is unavailable). I assume people can accept that 'anomaly' pretty well.<br/>		:In case user setting would become determining (with or without the Mediawiki solution code), if showing a single language suffices, even simpler <nowiki>{{Title\|Links}}</nowiki> and <nowiki>{{Title\|History}}</nowiki> would produce the titles in the reader's language, even if the rest of the page would be in another language (including with Wikimedia solution wherever the reader's language is unavailable). I assume people can accept that 'anomaly' pretty well.<br/>
	:[[User:SomeHuman\|SomeHuman]] 2010-03-08 06:32-07:04		:[[User:SomeHuman\|SomeHuman]] 2010-03-08 06:32-07:04
		+
		+	== Site migration ==
		+
		+	Hi SomeHuman. I'm addressing this to you because you seem to be the only person updating regularly at present.
		+
		+	I've been asked by Conrad, who provides hosting for the websites, including the wiki, to help him move to a different host. Conrad's circumstances have changed and he's trying to cut costs.
		+
		+	I already made one attempt to migrate, closing updates to the wiki, and migrating the data. You probably noticed. But we hit a snag and I had to postpone and reopen the wiki.
		+
		+	Problems have been resolved and I think we have good probability of success at a second attempt. I'd like to do it as soon as possible. It will mean the wiki is closed for updates for a period; hopefully less than 24 hours, but possibly longer.
		+
		+	Just telling you for awareness. It would be good to get an acknowledgement that you are ok with this, but I will go ahead in the next couple of days and apologise for any inconvenience.
		+
		+	Best wishes
		+	Rob

@@ Line 31: / Line 31: @@
 :*The Wikimedia solution shows it is a beta version, and it was last updated in 2006... I would think that if it had worked as intended, it would no longer be a beta. And neither its author nor anyone else seems interested or able to attend to whatever the problem(s) might be. It might be just a minor glitch that has little relevance on our simple wiki, but more serious consequences on larger scale complex wikis (e.g. incompatibility with other, often intricate, templates, or with other solutions for similar problems that are in use).
 :Anyway, this wiki desparately needs a ''decision-making facility''. Your 'Next ride' template for instance, needs to become multilingual to avoid page-by-page simulations of its output. One might have a single multilingual template for the 'standard' titles, which would appear to an editor like <nowiki>{{Title|Links|fr,en}}</nowiki> to show "Liens / Links", or elsewhere <nowiki>{{Title|History|nl}}</nowiki> to show "Historiek", on the pages.<br/>
-:In case user setting would become determining (with or without the Mediawiki solution code), if showing a single language suffices, even simpler <nowiki>{{Title|Links}}</nowiki> and <nowiki>{{Title|History}}</nowiki> would produce the titles in the reader's language, even if the rest of the page would be in another language (including with Wikimedia solution whereever the reader's language is unavailable). I assume people can accept that 'anomaly' pretty well.<br/>
+:In case user setting would become determining (with or without the Mediawiki solution code), if showing a single language suffices, even simpler <nowiki>{{Title|Links}}</nowiki> and <nowiki>{{Title|History}}</nowiki> would produce the titles in the reader's language, even if the rest of the page would be in another language (including with Wikimedia solution wherever the reader's language is unavailable). I assume people can accept that 'anomaly' pretty well.<br/>
 :[[User:SomeHuman|SomeHuman]] 2010-03-08 06:32-07:04

@@ Line 27: / Line 27: @@
 :The principle is quite sound, Nick. There are however, at first sight, three catches:
-:*In January, my [[Template_talk:Stub#Multilingual version]] comment already mentioned that we do not seem to have decision making facilities on this wiki. That template's source contains inline-commented pseudo-code for the decision-making. The Mediawiki solution that you propose does basically what I explained. But it uses the language argument with the corresponding text, for several languages in a page, and lets user settings instead of a language argument ''decide'' what to show - a very interesting approach that might allow maintaining bi- and multilingual pages. For a template like 'Stub' with predefined text in a sufficient number of languages, no argument would be needed. The Wikimedia solution must '''prerequisite''' (at least) basic programming facilities to allow its decision-making.
+:*In January, my [[Template_talk:Stub#Multilingual version]] comment already mentioned that we do not seem to have decision making facilities on this wiki. That template's source contains inline-commented pseudo-code for the decision-making. The Mediawiki solution that you propose does basically what I explained. But it uses the language argument with the corresponding text, for several languages in a page, and lets user settings instead of a language argument ''decide'' what to show - a very interesting approach that might allow maintaining bi- and multilingual pages. For a template like 'Stub' with predefined text in a sufficient number of languages, no argument would be needed to show only one language. The Wikimedia solution must '''prerequisite''' (at least) basic programming facilities to allow its decision-making.
 :*One has no overview: To practically maintain pages in several languages, one must be able to ''see'' the different language versions at the same time. At least in theory, that problem could be solved by a user setting override that would tell the Wikimedia style template (as well as my style templates for specific purposes) to show all availabe languages instead of one. This might be extremely easy, or more tricky - I did not yet study the Wikimedia solution's source code.
 :*The Wikimedia solution shows it is a beta version, and it was last updated in 2006... I would think that if it had worked as intended, it would no longer be a beta. And neither its author nor anyone else seems interested or able to attend to whatever the problem(s) might be. It might be just a minor glitch that has little relevance on our simple wiki, but more serious consequences on larger scale complex wikis (e.g. incompatibility with other, often intricate, templates, or with other solutions for similar problems that are in use).
-:Anyway, this wiki desparately needs a ''decision-making facility''. Your 'Next ride' template for instance, needs to become multilingual to avoid page-by-page simulations of its output. One might have one multilingual template for the 'standard' titles, which would appear to an editor like <nowiki>{{Title|Links|fr,en}}</nowiki> to show "Liens / Links", or elsewhere <nowiki>{{Title|History|nl}}</nowiki> to show "Historiek", on the pages.<br/>
+:Anyway, this wiki desparately needs a ''decision-making facility''. Your 'Next ride' template for instance, needs to become multilingual to avoid page-by-page simulations of its output. One might have a single multilingual template for the 'standard' titles, which would appear to an editor like <nowiki>{{Title|Links|fr,en}}</nowiki> to show "Liens / Links", or elsewhere <nowiki>{{Title|History|nl}}</nowiki> to show "Historiek", on the pages.<br/>
-:In case user setting would become determining (with or without the Mediawiki solution code), if showing a single language suffices, even simpler <nowiki>{{Title|Links}}</nowiki> and <nowiki>{{Title|History}}</nowiki> would produce the titles in the reader's language, even if the rest of the page would be in another language. I assume people can accept that 'anomaly' pretty well.<br/>
+:In case user setting would become determining (with or without the Mediawiki solution code), if showing a single language suffices, even simpler <nowiki>{{Title|Links}}</nowiki> and <nowiki>{{Title|History}}</nowiki> would produce the titles in the reader's language, even if the rest of the page would be in another language (including with Wikimedia solution whereever the reader's language is unavailable). I assume people can accept that 'anomaly' pretty well.<br/>
-:[[User:SomeHuman|SomeHuman]] 2010-03-08 06:43
+:[[User:SomeHuman|SomeHuman]] 2010-03-08 06:32-07:04

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:32, 8 March 2010
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	--[[User:Nsayers\|Nsayers]] 23:50, 7 March 2010 (UTC)		--[[User:Nsayers\|Nsayers]] 23:50, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
		+
		+	:The principle is quite sound, Nick. There are however, at first sight, three catches:
		+	:*In January, my [[Template_talk:Stub#Multilingual version]] comment already mentioned that we do not seem to have decision making facilities on this wiki. That template's source contains inline-commented pseudo-code for the decision-making. The Mediawiki solution that you propose does basically what I explained. But it uses the language argument with the corresponding text, for several languages in a page, and lets user settings instead of a language argument ''decide'' what to show - a very interesting approach that might allow maintaining bi- and multilingual pages. For a template like 'Stub' with predefined text in a sufficient number of languages, no argument would be needed. The Wikimedia solution must '''prerequisite''' (at least) basic programming facilities to allow its decision-making.
		+	:*One has no overview: To practically maintain pages in several languages, one must be able to ''see'' the different language versions at the same time. At least in theory, that problem could be solved by a user setting override that would tell the Wikimedia style template (as well as my style templates for specific purposes) to show all availabe languages instead of one. This might be extremely easy, or more tricky - I did not yet study the Wikimedia solution's source code.
		+	:*The Wikimedia solution shows it is a beta version, and it was last updated in 2006... I would think that if it had worked as intended, it would no longer be a beta. And neither its author nor anyone else seems interested or able to attend to whatever the problem(s) might be. It might be just a minor glitch that has little relevance on our simple wiki, but more serious consequences on larger scale complex wikis (e.g. incompatibility with other, often intricate, templates, or with other solutions for similar problems that are in use).
		+	:Anyway, this wiki desparately needs a ''decision-making facility''. Your 'Next ride' template for instance, needs to become multilingual to avoid page-by-page simulations of its output. One might have one multilingual template for the 'standard' titles, which in a page would look like <nowiki>{{Title\|Links\|fr,en}}</nowiki> to obtain a "Liens / Links" and <nowiki>{{Title\|History\|nl}}</nowiki> to show "Historiek".<br/>
		+	:In case user setting would become determining (with or without the Mediawiki solution code), if showing a single language suffices, even simpler <nowiki>{{Title\|Links}}</nowiki> and <nowiki>{{Title\|History}}</nowiki> would produce the titles in the reader's language, even if the rest of the page would be in another language. I assume people can accept that 'anomaly' pretty well.<br/>
		+	[[User:SomeHuman\|SomeHuman]] 2010-03-08 06:32